Getting fired, it is that most dreaded professional misadventure: many of us have lived it, and in one way or another all of us fear it. Well today three of the most powerful men in Belize had their first taste of joblessness. For the first time in six years, Mark Espat, and Cordel Hyde were no longer ministers; for Senator Eamon Courtenay it was the first time in 4 years.
So what is it like on the day after they were sacked? Well 7NEWS got a chance to hear it direct from the two southside ministers in exclusive interviews. We begin first with Mark Espat. Espat, as is now known, was singled out by the Prime Minister for removal. While PM Musa was willing to make offers to Cordel Hyde and Eamon Courtenay, he had nothing to discuss with Espat whom he simply wanted out. Why? Well Espat wouldn't disclose or discuss what was said between him and the Prime Minister but he did say they have divergent views on what works in government.
Jules Vasquez,
How is the comedown, basically, the day after you've been fired from your post as one of the 16 most powerful persons in the country?
Mark Espat, Albert Area Rep.
"Well Jules I never believed while I was minister that I would be minister for a lifetime and I never believed that the Ministry was my ministry. I always recognized that it was a responsibility given to me for a specific period that could be withdrawn any day and I tried as best as I could to conduct myself with that principle in mind."
Jules Vasquez,
As you understand it, why were you moved?
Mark Espat,
"Well Jules I think that the constitution allows the prime minister to appoint his Cabinet and also to make changes to his Cabinet at his will and I would prefer he answer that question. I can tell you that our meeting was brief, it was a frank discussion, and it was private and I would prefer to keep it that way. But I will say that I don't think that personnel changes is the most important thing in the mix right now. I think far more important are the looming challenges to the nation, particularly the financial health of the nation. In a few weeks time we should be having the 2005/2006 budget and I think that there are fundamental issues that will have to be dealt with in that budget. The prime minister in the past has alluded to possible revenue enhancement measures and I think we have to focus on 2005 as a defining year for Belize. Certainly after the recent IMF visit I think we will have some fundamental choices to make and the more we are able to face those choices squarely and the harder decisions we take, I think certainly the better it will be for Belize and Belizeans in the long term."
Jules Vasquez,
Should I now take it that you will hold the prime minister onto the fire for making sure that, as has been said that these new revenue measures are equitable, are fair, and seek to get the revenue from the right places and not just the usual suspects which are the taxpayers of Belize?
Mark Espat,
"I think those who can afford to pay should be made to pay their fair share. I think we should close the loopholes, where those loopholes exist. I think that as an absolute last measure that we should bring taxes on the masses of the people."
Jules Vasquez,
Is what we saw unfold yesterday the final failing of the group known as the G7?
Mark Espat,
"Well Jules I think I can best answer that question perhaps by looking back to August. As you know, none of us in the so-called G7 spoke during that time in August and maybe I should say now, speaking for myself of course, having served on the public finance committee over the last 4 months that I am more clear today in my conscience than ever before that what our group did, the 7 of us in August, was the right thing to do."
Jules Vasquez,
Weren't you out rightly betrayed by some members of the G7? I mean we see that people got serious ministerial upgrades basically at your expense or at Cordel Hyde's expense or at Eamon Courtenay's expense.
Mark Espat,
"Jules there was a very clear pact in August, and there was a very clear pact with reason, and I believe that in August and since August the 18th we have acted, I have acted, in absolutely good faith. I believe so has Cordel and other members of the so-called G7 but I will let them speak for themselves."
Jules Vasquez,
Whenever you get in politics, its not to be an area representative or a backbencher, it's to be a minister of government to be in power and to have power. You have gone from having a great deal of power to having none, what is next? How do you remain in a game in which you are powerless?
Mark Espat,
"I am confident that at some point in the future that the ideas that I have about public service and the manner in which governance should be pursued will be very useful, as I believe they have been to Belize."
Jules Vasquez,
Do you believe you and the prime minister have divergent views on the administration of a government?
Mark Espat,
"Well Jules only the prime minister knows the cards that he holds. Only Prime Minister Musa can make the calibrations, the political calibrations, that he does and I won't pretend that I have the information and make the judgments that he does. If you're asking me if we would do certain things differently, certainly we would. I certainly believe that there are some things that have not gone the way they should have gone, many things in fact over the last 6 ½ years and I believe the prime minister has said so himself. The question is what are we going to do about it? What are we going to do to ensure that certain things do not happen again? What are we going to do to ensure that our dollar is not threatened, that the fiscal deficit is reined in, that taxes if there are any are imposed equitably? What are we going to do to rebuild confidence in the government? What are we going to do to ensure that this government can access international credit? What are we going to do to get the imprimatur of the IMF and World Bank on our fiscal policies? Those are the questions that we have to answer."
Jules Vasquez,
In his August 18th statement the prime minister said that he feels that the new Cabinet he composed was the team that would take his administration through the difficult time ahead. And while we have seen the unfolding of a difficult time, are you surprised at the reversal of what I imagine was a very closely worded, a very carefully worded, statement?
Mark Espat,
"Well Jules I don't think that any change in Cabinet augers well for stability and confidence, especially when it's the fourth Cabinet in less than two years. I think that's not a positive thing obviously for Belize. And perhaps we don't take as seriously here in Belize but certainly our friends abroad and those we work with, when those things happen, it's a negative not a positive."
Jules Vasquez,
Would you be open to joining the UDP or maybe forming a third party?
Mark Espat,
"Jules its been 24 hours since the prime minister announced his changes. I have started to meet with my constituents and with my various committees. I am a member of the People's United Party today. I believe in the creed of the People's United Party and I don't think that is a consideration that I've ever exercised up until now."
Jules Vasquez,
So does that mean you're considering it now?
Mark Espat,
"The situation right now is that I am a member of the People's United Party. I represent the PUP for the Albert constituency in the House and I will continue to consult with my voters, with my committee members, and let's see what happens in the coming weeks and months."
Jules Vasquez,
Mark you had to expect this. You embarrassed the boss, you put the boss through a very hard time in August; the boss is of the opinion, and he has told me this, that you leak documents, that you are not loyal to his principles or to the oath of the Cabinet which he heads. If the boss thinks all these things about you, you should expect to get fired, some would say. How would you respond to that?
Mark Espat,
"Jules I have tried in the last 6 ½ to perform my functions with distinction as minister, as representative, and I swore loyalty 6 ½ years ago at the Governor General's House to the country of Belize and I am loyal to the country of Belize."
