But is there a disconnect between those calling the shots and those benefitting from the program? Noralez explained that some of those same PUP parliamentarians would recommend persons for the program, so she's not sure where it lost support:
Dominique Noralez, Former Director & Chairperson, LIU
"I don't necessarily use disconnect because they were members of Parliament who, as you know, in our system are also ministers who would reach out on behalf of constituents, to have them join the program so they knew the necessity of the program. It's not that people within the political directory don't know. And so I mean, that adds to a bit of the misunderstanding and the dilemma, like, you understand how necessary and how much of a lifeline something like this is, why move in this sort of careless way?"
Courtney Menzies:
"One of the reasons that when we spoke to the CEO, the reason that he gave was that, a lot of persons are being paid on this program who aren't even working. Lots of ghost workers, I guess. Is this something that you also observed?"
Dominique Noralez, Former Director & Chairperson, LIU
"Well, we were trying to gather data because when I joined in 2023, there was very little data on people in the program. And then switching the way in which we paid people via Digi Wallet also required a bit more of us. And so no ghost worker could exist on LIU because you can't be a ghost because your name has too attached to a Social Security card and that Social security card is attached to a Digi wallet card. And so there can be no ghost. So that's one, two when it comes to productivity. Yes. People had commitment issues related to how often they work, when they work. But with those irresponsible things came sanctions. So you were suspended or you were completely taken off the program. We also had to improve our own capacities. How can we monitor the program? Do we have enough vehicles to do this? Do we have the working tools? Do we have the protective gear for these for these gentlemen? Because it's not just a matter of saying, oh, well, you have to go to work. We have to create an environment for that. And so those things were also improved."
Courtney Menzies:
"So I guess while you were there, you didn't hear any indication that, you know, the government was planning to end it?"
Dominique Noralez, Former Director & Chairperson, LIU
"Well, no, because the program was always in the budget. I mean, we wrote budgets like it was a part of the strategic planning for the Ministry of Home Affairs. I forget what year that was, probably early 2024. You know, LIU was always a part of the conversation."
