And while that stream of single day straight payments - all under the reportable threshold - would certainly raise any auditor's blood pressure - the CEO explained that there could be a practical explanation.
Jules Vasquez
"But what stands out is that of these 44 invoices, all of them are under the $10,000 threshold right? $9960. We saw that number multiple times, which, we see numbers repeating, right?"
"The same exact figures. And they're all clearly designed to be under the $10,000 threshold. Isn't this a way to escape oversight?"
Francis Usher, CEO - Ministry of Defence and Border Security
"I don't think it's a way to escape oversight. I think it's a way to escape the bureaucracy of getting paid. I think this is a mechanism used by providers to get paid quicker."
Jules Vasquez
"But if you have a contract with the government, sorry to cut you, but if you have a contract with the government, you'll get paid. You know, you can you can use the larger amount with the 18,000 or if it's a in this case this is 400,000. If you have a legitimate contract, it may take a minute, but the government is good for it and you'll get your money."
Francis Usher, CEO - Ministry of Defence and Border Security
"Right. But in that meantime, no, it is balancing whether or not you are able to turn over and provide for the next month or the month after that."
Jules Vasquez
"But you understand how this appears. This is the brother of the minister, Stanley Mira. He's now the minister. He's the full minister of defense. And $400,000 in small payments are approved on a single day. A 393,000. This looks like insider trading. This looks like, preferred treatment for politically favored companies supplying the minister, his brother's ministry."
Francis Usher, CEO - Ministry of Defence and Border Security
"So in terms of optics, I can definitely, understand why from a perception, or a public perception, this would be seen or could be seen as that."
"But the fact of the matter is, at the ministry level, at the CEO down, what I focus on is ensuring we get quality service, quality goods. They're delivered on time and that what is being delivered is what were paid for."
"I can guarantee you that nothing that was paid for was not delivered. All of those items were delivered. We reviewed the quotations submitted to ensure we're getting value for money."
Jules Vasquez
"Are you able to assure us that the ministry did get a.) value for money and the requisite supply of goods for that $393,000 paid out?"
Francis Usher, CEO - Ministry of Defence and Border Security
"Yes, I can. Every single item that was on the quotation, requisition, purchase order, and the waybill."
