Last night, you saw Dr. Victor Lizarraga, the Chairman and founder of Universal Health Services give a gritty defense of his institution and its publicly guaranteed debt. Between jousts with Jules Vasquez, he also gave a cursory explanation of how the proposed amalgamation of the KHMH and Universal might work. Today, Minister of Health Jose Coye commented further. He's the man pushing the plan forward, and doing it so well that he gotten an endorsement from the Cabinet. We spoke to him about what it means, and what it'll cost.
Hon. Jose Coye, Minister of Health
"Karl Heusner was designed primarily for what we call general care or secondary care. We looked at a deal that went bad in the case of Universal and we thought that out of we can try to make some good of it. Universal is designed exclusively for tertiary care."
Jules Vasquez Reporting,
When I spoke to Chairman of the KHMH Authority, he said that he hadn't been sufficiently briefed in order to speak to me and so did the CEO so where's the direction coming from?
Hon. Jose Coye,
"The direction is coming first from the Cabinet. What we were to do, but events were overtaking us, is that we cannot say for sure that this is a foregone conclusion; there are hurdles to be crossed. When we cross the hurdle of how we will settle the debt, in terms of the debt owing to the Belize Bank, it is then the other things will flow."
Jules Vasquez,
But Minister you are saying that this is rationalizing, its going back to the idea of universal access but really what is forcing this is the imperative problem, that the Belize Bank wants its money and your government in its, what you described in the House as its expanstionist movement, your government made a guarantee without bringing it to this House and I will venture without taking it into your Cabinet room. A guarantee was made and that is why we are in this situation, not because you are so concerned about universal health access. You all are trying to make the best of a bad situation.
Hon. Jose Coye,
"Well that's one way of looking at it Jules and I understand that if one had not looked at it from the health perspective then you can look at it from the other perspective. Some would say the government is looking to bailout. Quite frankly I don't think it is a bailout, it seems to be more a takeover.
What we were saying is that as we roll out the NHI by the end of next year, which we are projecting, we will face some serious problems in the second and tertiary care because we were to have a comprehensive package from the outset. We could not have started with the comprehensive package, we started on a modified package. Now that we are about to complete the rollout of the modified package, we have to by then have something in place to deal with secondary and tertiary care. So it happened yes that Universal was in a position that it was indebted and that presented an opportunity, and I said earlier that was a bad deal that maybe we can turn into something good."
Jules Vasquez,
You say it is a bad deal but it's more than a bad deal. We're talking about $44 million here. That is not a bad deal. A bad deal is if you buy a pair of shoes and they come apart on you, you got a bad deal. This is $44 million and no public disclosure was made. This is more than a bad deal, this is a corrupt act.
Hon. Jose Coye,
"Well Jules I think I will leave it to you to characterize whether it is corrupt or not. In my opinion, quite frankly, I did not support it at the time and I made that public. But I am not here to tell you because I didn't support it then, it means that if I see an opportunity where we can make good out of that that I will not support it. This offers an opportunity to do it and at the same time offers the government an opportunity to be able to say at least that there is a hope that the debt will be paid off eventually. Certainly you are then doing with both. But I wouldn't believe that we should ever see it as something driven that the motive is primarily that of dealing with Universal."
Jules Vasquez,
The motive primarily is to pay the Belize Bank. Michael Ashcroft wants his money and reasonably he should, you all made a guarantee; you gave him a blank check - run the overdraft.
Hon. Jose Coye,
"If I was Belize Bank, I would be looking at it that way. If I were the creditor in any position, I would say certainly. I think what you are doing is more from a...if I were to see it as how you are seeing it from the creditor. But I am saying that is one way of seeing it and certainly one can see it that way.
What I am saying is that as the Minister of Health, we had to give an answer to the secondary and tertiary care as part of our commitment to universal access for a comprehensive package and that was what motivated us. Now here was an opportunity that presented itself I repeat. Whether it was the right thing to have done in the first place or not, I think that is a different issue that can be debated at another time if you wish. I had my say then and I am not prepared to go back to it now. I am simply saying is that that is not what drives us at this end but it does present an opportunity and I agree that those concerns will be always there but happens with the money that went into Universal and how it will be recovered and it should be a concern to the people because it is the people's money and therefore the people should benefit from it."
Jules Vasquez,
The illusion that we are benefiting from it now, is really a bate switch. $44 million Minister, an open check to a private investor. What is that?
Hon. Jose Coye,
"Jules I don't think we are differing, it is just that you might be more dramatic in expressing it but I have said it before. I have said back in 2004, I have made my position quite clear with what happened at the DFC and the SSB and I made that to the press and to the public. So I am not here to suggest in anyway that what you are saying is not true. I am simply saying that my staying in the government, and whatever may have happened, it was because I wanted to see change and I am beginning to see those changes."
Jules Vasquez,
Where is the Joe Coye who stood up at the KHMH, who called a press conference at the KHMH when an idea of a takeover of KHMH was first floated? You came back from a trip, you stood up, you defied the Prime Minister at the time, that was what was said, you stood up and said, 'this isn't going to happen like this, I am standing up for the KHMH, I am standing up for public healthcare.' Where is that Joe Coye now?
Hon. Jose Coye,
"Right here and that is exactly what I am doing, I am standing up for it still. This is not about a takeover."
Jules Vasquez,
You're standing up for the Belize Bank, the Belize Bank needs its money.
Hon. Jose Coye,
"Jules let's get back to it clearly, you want to see it from the perspective of the creditor and yes you can see it from the perspective of the creditor and you can be very critical about it, that is the Belize Bank you are standing up for. Now we are not selling KHMH, we are not privatizing KHMH, that is what I stood against and I remain that way. So we are not selling KHMH, what we are looking to do is to strengthen the KHMH. We want to put more resources into the KHMH. We wan the KHMH to become more efficient and more effective in the delivery of care."
Jules Vasquez,
But that decision could have been made from the start and the money that was wasted on Universal, which was hatched up as a profiteering scheme off the illusion of NHI, should have been more properly invested in the KHMH in the first place.
Hon. Jose Coye,
"So we are not differing. I am agreeing with you Jules. That is what I said at the time but you are taking me back to a past which and you agreed on, and we still agree, the thing I am saying now is I cannot reverse it so what I have to do is to take the hand that I dealt with now and make the best of it."
