Kurlin (Kirlyn) Felix was killed on the streets on Sunday and two men, Steven Arnold and Ian Reed narrowly escaped death yesterday in another daylight shooting. With this latest wave of shootings police fear that there could be retaliation. And that’s why the senior command pulled in a group of about 30 young – and not so young men – who they view as troublemakers.
They were brought to the Queen Street Station to talk. The media was invited to sit in, but not to tape, as Commander of Operations Crispin Jeffries led a lively conversation where he was openly challenged in heated back and forth sessions. At the end of it, we spoke to parties from both sides to ask: was it productive, and will there be peace in the streets? Here’s what we were told.
Crispin Jeffries, Assistant Commissioner of Police
“We have had a number of incidents that have occurred over the last thirty days of which yesterday’s incident of shootings clearly indicates that we may have some rivalry and some retaliation happening and we needed to try and arrest this situation. We believe that we can talk to some of the major players.”
Kenneth “Big Thom” Flowers,
“Directly the news says that we have meetings with this one and that one but nobody gets any sense out of those meetings because as we come from the meetings by the afternoon somebody is dead. You get the sense. So that is not the solution. The solution isn’t working. You have to work with the people and come out more and give them respect and then they will give you back respect. So when the police wants someone to testify on somebody, they can’t even get that because they don’t have any respect to deal with people.”
Raymond Gentle,
“The first thing in the meeting they aren’t talking nothing about the violence that is happening. It is only drugs. Only drugs everyone is based on. All the superiors, the people who should be trying to control this violence is talking about drugs.”
Jules Vasquez,
But according to them you sell drugs. That is what they are saying.
Raymond Gentle,
“I have a grocery shop and I have my past with drugs. I am parolee of drug trafficking. I been to prison for drug trafficking, for marijuana only. But due to my past they print me this way to today.”
Jules Vasquez,
So as far as they are concerned, you can’t live down your past?
Raymond Gentle,
“Far as I concerned, I didn’t come here concerning drugs at all. I came here concerning murder and all of those shootings that are happening in the streets.”
Ernest Perez,
“The police need to address the people them properly with more respect. They don’t have any love towards the poor people out there. The ghetto people have to do certain things to survive because surviving is a problem. You go and look for a job, the weekly salary is $150. $150 is the normal salary so you have five children. For you to feed those 5 children, the $150 isn’t enough so you have to do something else. That’s why you see jackings, you see them go rob, you seem those shootings.”
Kenneth “Big Thom” Flowers,
“I got shot up five times. I have eight bullet holes on me. I was a bad person. I know about gunshot, I know about going to jail for murder, you get the sense. But that is not my sight what I am looking for. My sight which I am looking for is to have a better life to drive home to my yard, go to my house, and lock my gate. You get the sense? And have my family laughing and happy with me. But three times for the day I get rubbed down by police. Me and my woman are driving in my car and police stop we all at stop light.”
Crispin Jeffries,
“The selfish attitude of the young persons in there who seem to complain that they are being abused are some of the major players in the streets. They know us, we deal with them every time and they know this is a point that they will always be heard to be saying that the police is chancing them and that is what police prey on; the police chancey. You might have sat down in there for a while and listened and we pointedly said to some of them we know what you are doing, we know what you’ve done, we’ve arrested you, we’ve charged you, and there is a clear consensus that you’re part of the problem.”
“A society begets the type of policemen it deserves and we are not saying that our officers, all out there, are perfect. We know there are times when the law provides for and there are times when physical and emotional stress and other attitudes take over and they do wrong things.”
“We are standing here now, who knows that before you get through the gate there might be another incident happening out there. Its not that patrols aren’t out there. It is not that our efforts are not being focused on reducing, arresting the situation but it is difficult, it is challenging.”
Jules Vasquez,
How would you rate that meeting?
Raymond Gentle,
“Well the way I am seeing it, in this country there is no peace. To find peace in Belize it is hard so there is just war because in the streets might not have knowledge of, or have knowledge of, is old school, ‘lone old school man get shot. Sunday Kurlin Felix got shot. Yesterday Ian Reid got shot. They are men who have been hanging out from the late ‘80s. They’ve been around from the late 80's to early 90's. So for me who is old school, from the late 80s, I have to watch myself.”
Kenneth “Big Tom” Flowers,
“Although we go and sit down in there, it won’t make a difference. You got out right now and you will hear some shots ring out because they aren’t making any difference. If they want to work towards something they have to work with the people. Only the people can make a difference.”
Ernest Perez,
“In there didn’t reach anything. We need to come to something sensible because we aren’t going anywhere. Most of the guys who are coming up, they don’t believe in the police and they don’t believe in anything because they see how it is working. They see the police chancing them and they see the government chancing them and we aren’t reaching anywhere. So if they don’t bring a better solution, we will never have peace. I am willing for us to have peace because we have kids, we have families, we have our morena, and I would like to live in peace but its not happening.”
Jules Vasquez,
Big Thom, they say you’re the man, you’re the big bad wolf, you are causing the killings. Every time someone gets shot, if your name doesn’t get called first, it is called second.
Kenneth “Big Thom” Flowers,
“But I want to know why my name is always called, you get the sense? Every time I am always involved in something which I don’t know about so how come I am involved in it. I am here to make a difference, not to encourage anyone to do any fool. I am encouraging someone to do the right things and not the wrong things but every time I am a victim to this. Every time they kill someone or pick up someone, I spend all the 48 (hours). Me right here miss none, you get the sense. I am tired of everyday I am out there selling my cars and this morning police came to me and now I am the big bad wolf.”
“For them, I don’t mind helping them make a change and a difference but not a informing business, a difference to help people so people have a better life. Even the Minister and them, instead of they build house for people so they could have jobs, they don’t even do that. So people are still suffering everyday so what does government think, police will change? They have police this way.”
Jules Vasquez,
Sir this seems abstract but isn’t part of the problem as we heard in there that a lot of those young men see you as a functionary of a corrupt system, that you are upholding a system which protects the rich and punishes the poor?
Crispin Jeffries,
“Jules I think a very eloquent question. I think the main concern here is that people’s perception of the police and myself. If I was under a different government administration, and I have functioned under other administrations, I would have done the same.”
“There is always the comment to suggest that it is political, it is in support of a political party. But if we, the police, the primary law enforcement agency, doesn’t keep a lid on crime, I would give you a very pointed scenario, if we were to allow any mob to overrun the National Assembly then you would have set a precedent that would continue hereafter. So if we allow the thugs to take over the city that they tried to do in the 90s and we quelled, to come back in 2000 and deal with it and we don’t take steps then we would have failed.”
Jules Vasquez,
You say thugs but these people, what we heard in there, these people are saying the biggest thief is in the office in the National Assembly. That is what they are saying in there. So it is a difference of perception and if you can’t square that, well then you will continue to have an irreconcilable difference between your interpretation of what is criminal and their interpretation of what is criminal. They see criminal acts in high places. That is what they see.
Crispin Jeffries,
“Jules I think the Bible talks about the devil and God and that is the answer to that comment. You make the judgment.”
