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Today, we pressed the Minister of Home Affairs Kareem Musa to assess the performance of his Commissioner of police when facing a clear case of internal fraud:
Jules Vasquez:
"Should this database be audited?"
Kareem Musa, Minister of Home Affairs
"Yes, I agree. I agree with that, Jules. We are in the process of introducing firstly to Cabinet and then by way of legislation, an entire gun reform system. And so that is forthcoming. And included in that has to be an audit in terms of who will do that audit at this point. We don't know yet, but I agree with you that that is something that should be done."
Jules Vasquez:
"Independent outside of the police department."
Kareem Musa, Minister of Home Affairs
"In terms of keeping it classified, because that is very personal information. I have no problem with an outsider from civil society looking at it, but there has to be a level of confidentiality."
Jules Vasquez:
"Would the commissioner act wrongly when he encountered a fraudulent vetting of Marybeth Wade. Yet looked around and said, You do it because he has your name and the guy said It's not me boss. All right. The band plays on."
Kareem Musa, Minister of Home Affairs
"Now. Had the commissioner upon learning that the vetting was fraudulent, allowed the individual to keep her license, then I would say that that is fraudulent. But the commissioner revoked it upon learning that I believe one month after something like that, one month after learning that the vetting was fraudulent, that particular license was canceled. And so I don't see any fraud being committed there."
"It is a matter of what the commissioner knew at the time of being presented with that vetting, which we now know to be fraudulent, forged, fraudulent. But as I understand it, the commissioner has already initiated an investigation into that particular file and others, because I understand the individual claims that there may be five others. So if we can certainly look over those five to see if a similar type fraudulent vetting was done, then the chips have to fall where they may in terms of whichever office it was that actually produced that fraudulent vetting."
Jules Vasquez:
"But are you all missing the forest for the trees? Because this is. Minister, it's a widespread practice. When Mr. Williams came aware of an instant case with a fraudulent vetting, he did not stop the press. This ended up on his desk. A fraudulent vetting for someone with a criminal record ended up on his desk."
Kareem Musa, Minister of Home Affairs
"Whenever the Commissioner of Police is presented with something from a member of the police department, he has to presume that that is a legitimate document. He would not expect that it would be a fraudulent vetting. And so, like I said, that requires an investigation to see which officer presented that and where that officer got that vetting from. If it was not him or her that prepared that vetting. And so I agree with you to that extent, but the commissioner did what was right in the end and canceled that particular license based on a fraudulent vetting."
Jules Vasquez:
"But if something fraudulent ends up on your desk, sir, you don't continue business as usual."
Kareem Musa, Minister of Home Affairs
"He did not either. Did he continue?"
Jules Vasquez:
"He continued to accept the vettings that came up."
Kareem Musa, Minister of Home Affairs
"No, no, no, no. You're saying that he he's now accepting after learning that after that incident."
Jules Vasquez:
"This happened in 2021, we are in 2023."
Kareem Musa, Minister of Home Affairs
"Yes. But who is to say he continued to receive from that particular police officer? You're assuming that he did after that."
Jules Vasquez:
"He said he checked with the police officer and police officer said it's not him so nothing..."
Kareem Musa, Minister of Home Affairs
"No, no there has to be a proper investigation when it comes to that particula file as well as the five that the individual mentioned."
Jules Vasquez:
"But there are more, sir."
Kareem Musa, Minister of Home Affairs
"Well, as much as they come up have to be investigated."
